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Post by Fred Richards on Feb 9, 2018 9:59:00 GMT -8
Lots of people talk. Very few people actually take up the challenge. Nothing but respect, man. I was one of PJ's main critics but man he putting his $$ where his mouth is! I for one want him to succeed! I am sure hoping for a brontosaurus sized piece of Crow!!!! Spoken like a gentleman, Mr. Mellos. My respects, sir.
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Post by MKCS on Feb 10, 2018 2:00:41 GMT -8
I appreciate the support guys, I figured many people would put me down but it's been nothing but positive from everyone. I just hope come show time you guys actually enjoy my creativity as that is how we ultimately will make the dollars.
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Post by gmellos on Feb 12, 2018 13:54:33 GMT -8
I appreciate the support guys, I figured many people would put me down but it's been nothing but positive from everyone. I just hope come show time you guys actually enjoy my creativity as that is how we ultimately will make the dollars. Seriously, You ARE doing what all of us detractors were saying when you posted your opinions. Putting your money where your mouth is. Unless I was a huge dick why wouldn't I want to root for your success as a promoter!! You get to do what most of us here can't, put your ideas to real life! Please continue to update us and I look forward to hearing about your success!
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Post by MKCS on Feb 22, 2018 2:03:24 GMT -8
Update time. Lots of exciting stuff.
- My first show is April 21st, the promoters who say this stuff is hard are 100% correct. We have started the advertising with just over 2 months remaining. We're doing what I like to refer as "light" advertising which consists of putting flyers up in shop windows, taping them to visible poles and generally just trying to get your show out there as much as possible without spending much. Our advertising cost us 210 dollars, for that we got 300 colour flyers (A5) and 100 posters (A4 size). I work full time 7:30-3:30 with a one hour commute each way so my girlfriend has been involved in getting the posters up. We've got them up in takeaway stores, tobacco stores, gas stations, bakeries and even some local pubs in the area. My girlfriend who has never promoted an event or had any involvement in anything like this assumes this will get us hundreds of people but I'm expecting it to get us maybe 20-30 people maximum. Maybe my expectations are low, I'm not sure.
- We've done a thirty dollar facebook advertising campaign which hypes up our event to locals. We have 23 people interested and three non staff members who have ticked "going" (One is my girlfriends best friend). For no fan base I'm happy with 23 people interested and three going for now considering we're two months out but I want minimum 100 "interested" people by show day and at least 50 people "going" from our social media. Remember, our aim is 100 people for us to break even so it's important to hit the cheap advertising.
- In four weeks I will approach our newspaper and radio station contacts. If we can get freebies out of these contacts they will be the most valuable advertising forms we have. My advertising budget is $500.00 so if I'm paying for traditional media that'd take the remaining money of our budget but if we get it all for free I can do more social media advertising and invest in perhaps another form of advertising for the event. Mad props to the promoters who consistently pull 400-500 people because honestly just to get 100 people interested and to part with their money with my contacts and media ability has been very difficult.
- Away from the show we've paid to put on we have the three other paid shows I've mentioned before but we're now talking to one venue 7 hours south to do a show for a few thousand dollars, 2 venues about 2-3 hours away for shows at the same price, one venue near a venue we've already confirmed so we can potentially do a weekend of shows, 1 venue interested about 5 hours away, 1 fair in the same area, 1 Halloween event about three hours away, 1 show in Sydney, it's pretty nuts. If we got all of them it'd be worth $23,500 AUD. That doesn't include the next exciting thing I would like to share with you guys.
- A very real possibility is a tour of the large regional cities in the states north in 2018. We have already got one venue on board for the event, another venue is just clearing it with their management but are "very keen" as they said, another smaller club is also pitching it to their management whilst a fourth club got in touch today wanting additional information. One venue seats 1500 people and said they're confident of getting at least a thousand people, the second largest venue has an auditorium that seats 1000 people, the third venue has an auditorium that seats 500 and the fourth venue doesn't have a large enough function room so want us to do a big Sunday afternoon show on their bowling green which they feel would seat close to 300-400 people.
This tour as it stands if every venue confirmed would be worth about 16,000 AUD for us and we're actively looking for more dates. The tour would be eight hours away but I have someone willing to drive it and I have talent willing to travel. One of the talent asked how I've managed to land so many shows and really it didn't take anything special. I have an E-Mail and I literally send it to every venue in town hoping some of them bite. I'd say I've easily sent 300-400 E-Mails and have only had about 25 venues interested. Quite a few get a quote for a show and stop replying.
- So, some of you may be thinking that local independent wrestling even in a regional area where there isn't much to do would never pull 1500 and you're totally correct. What's our hook? Well, the reason these big venues are interested is that part of my sales pitch is that we'd bring a former WWE superstar to their town (The power of "name" talent). Initially this was going to be Orlando Jordan who lives here but when the big venues started replying I quickly bailed on that idea and am now pursuing someone a little more popular to the regular wrestling fan. Who will I get? No idea. I'm actually open to suggestions because lord knows 1500 seats to fill is a hell of a lot.
Also, once we hit four dates confirmed we'd have enough money to bring in perhaps 1-2 of the best wrestlers in Australia. Guys with legitimate international achievements and we'd be able to create very strong tour shows. Our locals, a WWE star, top Australian talent flown in just for this tour. It's very exciting and we'll actually make money off it.
I never imagined I'd make so much forward momentum so quickly. Pretty much everyone except my girlfriend and her family discouraged me from even attempting this when I was saving the start up money but within two months we've done really well. Hell, even Goldust liked one of our posts that got shared earlier today which bewilders me.
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So for those following at home:
Confirmed dates: 4 (We'll do an additional four no matter what in our home area paid for by me)
Potential dates: 11 full shows/2 fairs
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If we got all of them (Which I doubt we will) we'd have 21 shows in 2018 which would have us quickly enter number 1 in terms of dates for the entire country and surely we'd have talent clamouring to be apart of our shows rather than me approaching them.
Insight into my mentality, the whole thing is totally stressful and a heap of work. Anyone who does this long term for no financial return is an absolute legend.
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Post by MKCS on Mar 2, 2018 2:17:09 GMT -8
Time for another update guys. Some good news and some bad this time. Lets start with the bad:
Bad news:
- The rival wrestling company in town has Ryback as their heavyweight champion and will be hosting Ryback 2 weeks before our show in the exact same town at a local basketball training arena (Seats about 1000 people). We're concerned that this could cause problems with the media (Might not want to talk about too much wrestling) and obviously the hype is going to be all about Ryback.
I spoke to my crew and they said this was obviously deliberate to try and take the wind out of our sails and hurt our draw. They suggested we could still pull a good crowd (Curiosity, cheaper tickets) but that it could mean us drawing 25% less than what we would draw without a show so close. We're going to heavily flyer their area with our show material and hope we can pull some of their audience away. It seems like a little wrestling war is brewing which is interesting and motivating.
- On a lighter note, our top draw for one of our spot shows pulled out but literally within one hour of him pulling out I had a guy who wrestled at NJPW's Wrestle Kingdom agreeing to work our event as the top guy as his replacement. Bad news is our top guy pulled out, good news is we found a replacement and these high end talents are willing to work for me.
- Sadly more bad news is the tour I spoke about above will probably not be going ahead. Venues get you on the phone, seem very keen and then their management votes on it and they won't do it. Usually it comes down to cost, I can't load 12 guys up on a bus and have them drive 8 hours for the kind of money these venues are offering however the venues being mainly regionally located don't have the kind of money to get us out there. We still do have the invitation to do a show at one of the venues so maybe it will be a case of bringing a name in and running our home territory on night 1 and then heading up there for night 2. A few are still undecided on it all so hopefully one or two come through although it's looking doubtful.
Good news:
- We've managed to become the main attraction for a fair in a small village town about four hours away. The fair is in a town of just 350 people and the entire town literally consists of a fairground, a few shops and farms. I'm actually surprised they were able to pay us our price (Although I did discount it) but it seems like a fun little event. The deal is we do three matches throughout the day (2 singles and a tag) so I'm hoping it can open up some opportunities out there and we can go out, entertain the people, sell some merchandise and come home happy. The town is so small that they don't even have motels in the town, I love areas like this and Australia is filled with them.
- Six weeks out from the event we actually sold our first few tickets via pre sale. Not family or friends just someone who genuinely wants to come to the event. We sold four tickets and some may scoff at that but as a new company with relatively unknown talent (To the area) it felt very good receiving that E-Mail in my inbox that someone is putting their hard earned money into my product and genuinely wants to come. Pre sales generally aren't a common occurrence here in Australia so to have sold four tickets 6-7 weeks out is great. We only require 100 to break even so 96 to go until profit.
- Despite the tour above probably not occurring we are still in talks with 2 new venues this week so fingers crossed one of the venues in question buys a show. These spot shows are how I'm making money whilst building a fan base in the home territory.
I've received some support via social media from some guys here on the board and I really appreciate the "likes" and following along to see what I can do with this via the social media page and of course on here. If I somehow ended up being the WWE of Australia it'd be cool to come back and read this thread about how the entire company started. This is an accurate description of what goes into launching a professional wrestling company so I hope you all are finding it interesting to an extent.
I'm sure it will become much more exciting when we're doing shows and I have photos, results, videos etc to share with all of you. Our first show is April 21st so not too long now.
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Post by Fred Richards on Mar 2, 2018 9:26:52 GMT -8
You are getting a College of Hard Knocks education in promoting. Frankly, I respect and admire the way you are handling things. You will find that the aggravation never stops.
When Phil Varlese and I promoted in New Jersey, we fielded worker cancellations (at the last minute), workers who arrived and demanded more money or they would not work, rival promoters who vandalized our posters - - or called fire inspectors making bogus allegations. Hell, some scumbags even tried to payoff the people whom we rented rings from in an effort to have them no-show us.
These things are to be expected. Take them as a compliment. Look at them as an indicator that the competition can't take you on in an ethical and businesslike manner so they resort to low blows.
I want to reiterate something I said when you first announced your intention to promote. Build your identity from the first show onward. Set up a good match that goes to a f*** finish and a challenge for a rematch. Make it loud. Make it believable. And go with it.
The NWA is dead - - there, I've said it. And I mean it 100%.
But what made the NWA thrive was the ability to draw crowds. There's no money in this online, you-tube giveaway shit. I once posed a question within this forum. I asked how many of us could HONESTLY claim we spent even a few dollars on an NWA-branded show or product over the past year. The silence was ear shattering.
The REAL NWA stalwarts understood that they had to draw a profitable crowd for the show. But the ingredient for success was to draw that crowd again and again and again. One time wonders are an illusion and lull inexperienced promoters into trouble. If you fill the house, you must analyze why. And you must stick with that formula for success.
Your workers work for YOU. YOU tell them what to do. Many workers are kids on a lark. All they want to do is get in the ring and show 30 to 40 people what they learned at the 'rasslin school. YOU write the match - - and you police the show to make certain your ORDERS are carried out.
The online bullshit means nothing. The only thing that matters is what's in your cash box after the ring lights go dark.
Build your own brand. Decide the genre of your product and make the employees dance to your drum.
There will always be "hot shots" right off television from the WWE, etc. And there is a REASON the WWE, Impact, etc. ended the relationship. Besides, this type of talent looks for the fast buck - - they show no loyalty to an indie until indies are the only ones who will book them. Doesn't mean they are not good workers - - just a business reality.
Let me expand. Nick Aldis is quality. Tim Storm, too. Sure, they will get a handful of bookings - - and they will wear the NWA strap proudly. Tim was misused when he dropped the title. That match (no fault of Tim's) was as limp as a male organ in desperate need of Viagra. Why do one bloody match? Why didn't the Corgan machine see the possibility of a program? A program that involved Corgan - - so news media would cover and publicize it. Short-sighted, and I'm being kind.
The heyday of the NWA, AWA and other once-viable brands is long gone. I will continue to say it - - taking on the WWE machine is a fool's errand. Tony Brooklyn and I talk often. Tony knows this business - - Tony knows business as a principle. It is abundantly clear to both of us that the latest incarnation of the NWA is nothing more than a lark to Billy Corgan.
Don't get me wrong - - Corgan bought it and can do whatever he want to with it. I hope he has some laughs. The most salient advice I ever received about pro wrestling was to make an exit when it just wasn't fun any longer. For me and the several promotions I still work with - - it's still fun. I enjoy doing whatever I can for promoters I know are honest people; one of whom is an Admin for this site.
So MKCS, keep chasing your dream - - just don't allow it to morph into a nightmare. Know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. Don't get yourself into debt. Too many people irresponsibly traveled that route and lived to regret it. Some of them still owe money to creditors. And some were forced into bankruptcy - - a scar on their ability to get a home mortgage or a car loan.
My sincerest good wishes for your success!!!
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Post by dkm on Mar 2, 2018 12:20:34 GMT -8
The only thing that matters is what's in your cash box after the ring lights go dark. The truest thing to be said. Bobby Heenan said that Gorilla Monsoon told him, "If you're not doing this for the money, you're a fool."
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Post by MKCS on Mar 2, 2018 21:57:54 GMT -8
Thank you Fred. Interesting post and actually totally relates to the situation here in this city.
Company ten years ago when I was a teenager attending every event I could used to bring a lot of big stars and as a fan it was great. Hugh Morrus, Sabu, Dragon Gate guys all made appearances in a 12 month period and it was amazing. Obviously the locals thought so as well because the Hugh Morrus show did 300, Dragon Gate did about 250 and Sabu would've easily done 400 with the cheapest seats being about $25.00. Came back the next year with the locals and were still doing great crowds but eventually started falling and falling. Saw some increases upon bringing some "names" back in and pushing a guy who was actually from the city but at their height they did 400+ and on their final show in this city they did just 75 people. They were unable to emotionally attach the audience to their locals and turned everyone away. I don't relish in that either, I loved what they brought here and would love it to be still occurring every three months.
Then the company with Ryback started running with new talent but still the same kind of exhibition style wrestling with no stories just wrestling. They much like the other company started out with big crowds of 250-300 people, a great heel on top who kept kayfabe and the audience absolutely despised and I believe they peaked at 350 which dropped to about 150-200 and then went away for a bit, returned with all new talent without ever having their heel toppled and since then they've done about 100-125 at the local bowling club. Brought Ryback in, pulled 650 at the basketball training stadium and have run off to a new market 45 minutes away where they're currently doing very well but will probably burn out within a year or two. To me that is bad business because you're running from market to market simply because you're not creative enough to keep your audience and not self aware enough to understand what you need to do.
I'm not suggesting I'm a wrestling genius but the exhibition wrestling style that we see on offer from indies and even the larger independents such as your PWG's etc is all short sighted. I could go into my savings, withdraw 10,000 dollars and have Alberto Del Rio Vs Michael Elgin on my first show, pull a decent crowd and go nuts about how good of a match I had but the value is in making the locals the stars.
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Post by dkm on Mar 7, 2018 10:53:39 GMT -8
This is really not NWA related so I've moved it to it's proper board. I know most of us like to post in the NWA board because it is the most active but we really need visit all the boards.
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Post by MKCS on Mar 30, 2018 0:27:29 GMT -8
Haven't updated in awhile as it's mainly just been the more mundane and uninteresting stuff.
- Advertising is doing well, we've got into the takeaways all around the area. One of our posters is hung proudly in the window of the most popular pizza shop in the area. Have noticed many shops will leave it in the window for 2-3 weeks and then take it down so that's something to learn from (Start doing the posters in the shops 2 weeks before or simply stick to poles)
- Many posters up around where kids will hang out. We've put them up on poles around schools, colleges, universities, train stations etc. We're offering $5.00 tickets which is really affordable for a 2 hour show. We gave a bunch of flyers and posters to the youth centre as well where obviously tons of kids are so I'm hoping that will translate to ticket sales.
- Our internet advertising is doing well. I put $30.00 a week into the advertising and so far we've got 76 people who are either going or are interested in going on our Facebook page. That's not including all the people who tag their friends and don't like the page or even tick that they are going to the event (I'd say we have 10-15 more who have done that).
- Talent have started submitting promos for a pre show that should be shot next week. We're doing it as kind of a sports style studio feel where myself and someone else discuss the matches, show promos and generally hype up the event. As I've mentioned before I have education in this and this is where I feel we can really do well.
- I've attempted to hit every media contact I have in the area about getting free advertising. Unfortunately a lot of people look down on the sport that we love and we can't get any forward momentum as of yet but my girlfriend has a friend who works at the newspaper so we're really hoping she can come through for us.
- Mentally it's actually quite stressful. Not as easy as taking a ring to the building and doing a show.
Will update again with our hype show.
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Post by josephd32 on Mar 30, 2018 0:57:23 GMT -8
Those last two are the real kickers. The number of people who not only don't like what we do, but actively look down on us is quite brutal. The mental stress will really test just how much you want to do this. I've thought about walking away several times, even very recently. However, when you wake up and you find yourself looking forward to putting in that work is when you know you love this. That, or you realize you really are crazy, lol.
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Post by josephd32 on Apr 4, 2018 0:06:17 GMT -8
Especially when you get a salty new manager running your venue, and they move to cancel your event three days before. That's 'fun'.
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Post by MKCS on Apr 15, 2018 15:29:36 GMT -8
The show is a mere 5 days away and it's an exciting but stressful time. All the work and effort of not just myself but the people around me will all be rewarded (hopefully) next Saturday night on April 21st.
There's not so much in terms of updates to talk about, our potential audience is growing with 115+ people on our Facebook event page either coming or considering coming. Word of mouth in the area is strong with friends of mine who are known to like wrestling being asked if they're attending the event by their acquaintances who I don't know. We're going to get some press in the newspaper via 3-4 lines in the "What's on" section of the paper which is great and the venue says that the older crowd who go into the club haven't been that interested but the younger people have which is okay.
Everything is going well in terms of advertising except the flyer drops. Maybe it's different in other parts of the world but we'll go ahead and put posters/flyers up in public in both stores and on poles etc and within a week or two they'll be taken down. Myself and my girlfriend went and did a flyer run on Thursday night and a minimum of 4-5 posters have been torn down. I don't see the appeal or fun in tearing them down and I know it's not related to any law enforcement because they would tear all of them down instead of ones just randomly placed. No idea why shops say we can put them in the window and then take them down.
Anyway, when you look at the start up fees you don't think about the cost of other things. We've got banners, used speakers, curtains, lights, microphones and pretty much everything you need to look semi-professional and it's cost quite a pretty penny. Two banners for the entry way are worth $250.00, speakers and microphone I got a deal on but were going to be sold for $150.00. Not cheap but at least we now have all this stuff ready for us for future events.
I've decided not to go with promotional merchandise just yet until the audience is regularly coming in and want to support us month in and month out. I did manage to get some reasonably priced WWE DVD's that we'll be throwing in a tub and selling for $5.00. I also managed to find a wholesale mask guy from Mexico who sold me 20 masks at $5.00 each. They're really good quality and we'll be selling them at the shows for just $15.00. Included is Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara so I hope this is a winner.
With 5 days until show time this is what my list looks like for this week. Keep in mind I work a 60 hour week at my job and am now running wrestling shows:
- Buy the less important stuff such as lockable cash boxes, price tags, tape, boxes etc etc.
- Arrange venues for a show in June and a show in July. The show in June was going to be in a different venue but they're booked solid so I'm trying to find a venue for an event in June and work with our current venue for a show in July so that we can put flyers on the seats and get a repeat audience.
- Final advertising hit out in the smaller areas that aren't as close to the area of the show.
- Cash cheques for events in May.
- Organise all the various paperwork for the show such as run sheets etc.
- Organise upcoming events on May 5th (Which is lacking in ticket sales, unfortunately) and May 19th.
- Start working towards June and July schedule which will consist of 2 shows in June and 1 in July.
- Sit down and work out everything I'm doing creatively.
I'm trying to give insight into just how much goes into these events. I'm mainly doing this as a 3 person group with my girlfriend and a friend of mine helping out. In reality I should probably have a team double the size but I'm sure nobody else in independent wrestling has six people working on all of this.
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Post by MKCS on Apr 19, 2018 18:42:37 GMT -8
I write this from the same place I wrote my original post back in December. Train station, about to start my night shift, finish at 11 PM, get home at 1 Am and get up at 5 AM to arrange everything for the show. Tomorrow (April 21st, 6:30 PM AEST) our debut show begins, I have done everything I can, hundreds of hours into building up to this day, advertising, late nights, early mornings and it all leads to tomorrow night.
Honestly, inside my head right now there is a little bit of fear, a little bit of excitement, a little bit of absolute panic but what is beating out all these other feelings is confidence. I've got my elected talent, I've got a solid staff behind me and I know in my heart I've utilised every contact, every bit of advertising material and have done everything I can to ensure a good crowd tomorrow night. If the audience isn't there it's out of my hands.
Some positive signs from the past week is that we seem to have a lot of word of mouth going for us. An old friend of mine from high school was getting his haircut and overheard two people talking about the show, known wrestling fans in the area have been approached by people they barely know asking them if they're going to the show, the venue says that people have been asking about it, our retail outlets distributing our flyers and putting up our posters are great spots and have done some amazing work for us.
Tomorrow night. I will keep you all updated and hopefully can come here on Sunday morning with photos of a huge crowd packing into the venue to see a Polejump wrestling event.
And it'll be my 1000th post, how poetic...
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Post by Jay Cal on Apr 20, 2018 6:47:21 GMT -8
That's awesome PJ! Who'd thought a year ago, you'd be running your own show. Obviously you, I guess. You'll probably be too busy to enjoy the experience, but honestly, I hope it's successful and fun for you. Have a great show.
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