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Post by Fred Richards on Jan 7, 2019 13:21:13 GMT -8
My argument here is base purely on the strict definition of your statement, Stripped down to the meaning of the words you are saying that if it is Willing be be bought then it has the right to be sold.. I am sure that is not the intend of what you are saying but using that basis I an not in any way ethically agree with that.. DAWG had an event last month.. over 100 orphans from CHOP were scheduled to attend.. The did not attend because of confusion over another event running with in close proximity that had ultra-violence & elements not deemed appropriate for said orphans to attend.. That events sold well but the consequences is over 100 sick kids could not attend what could very well be the last wrestling event because of the product they put on... Imagine if some one does what is right for the "Box office" of their promotion but that keeps a building or a sponsor from helping a cancer benefit for a young child because to that sponsor "all wrestling is the same".. Actions have consequences What DAWG did is noble. That has been your modus operandi since I've known you. My respect. Notwithstanding, I think you are taking my comment with an overly broad brush. This is a pro wrestling discussion board. My sole point that I thought I had made clear is that a promoter responds to his customers - - so long as what the customer wants and is willing to pay for does not go against the ethical grain of the promotion. If you promote a card and all you hear is "boring" and box office revenues are in the cellar, then it would behoove a wise promoter to find out why they are not drawing. That is the definition of giving the customer what they want and are willing to pay for as I intended. If the crowd wants blood and guts - - we both know what NJ promotion will give them that. If they want bosoms and lace, we also know where to refer them. I trust I have cleared the air. If not, you have my number. It's always good to have a discussion. |
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Post by Jay Cal on Jan 7, 2019 13:22:58 GMT -8
I'm not Arquette fan. As I've said before, I don't have anything against the guy on a personal level and if he is going to be involved in wrestling, I guess the NWA used him as well as possible. I understand Jaden's point and the question I really have is was the event successful because or Arquette or would they have drawn the same without him? I could be wrong. I doubt that a single fan in attendance paid to see Jocephus vs. Arquette. But, TMZ didn't talk about Aldis vs. Storm. They didn't bring up Willie Mack vs. Matt Cross. You need eyeballs to be successful. The more people who are tuning into what the NWA is doing, the better. How many NWA fans did they capture from TMZ, probably zero. But how many more people are now aware they exist... Got to get your name out there. |
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Post by spacemountain on Jan 7, 2019 14:49:55 GMT -8
Let's say wrestling is a real sport like MMA...
Arquette winning the WCW title would be stupid. There's no way a weedy actor could be at that level.
But Arquette as he is now is plausible. He was an actor who has now trained, he's started at the bottom on Indy mudshows and exhibits actual skills and toughness. He's a Rocky Balboa underdog.
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Post by dkm on Jan 8, 2019 14:06:25 GMT -8
I'm not Arquette fan. As I've said before, I don't have anything against the guy on a personal level and if he is going to be involved in wrestling, I guess the NWA used him as well as possible. I understand Jaden's point and the question I really have is was the event successful because or Arquette or would they have drawn the same without him? I could be wrong. I doubt that a single fan in attendance paid to see Jocephus vs. Arquette. But, TMZ didn't talk about Aldis vs. Storm. They didn't bring up Willie Mack vs. Matt Cross. You need eyeballs to be successful. The more people who are tuning into what the NWA is doing, the better. How many NWA fans did they capture from TMZ, probably zero. But how many more people are now aware they exist... Got to get your name out there. In the right places. If the TMZ piece didn't net any new fans, then what difference does it make. There are a ton of people who know the NFL exists, but they don't watch football. I don't watch Basketball but I know about the NBA. Now I have no idea what TNT normally run, but good word of mouth in wrestling circles will beat TMZ any day of the week. |
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Post by dkm on Jan 8, 2019 14:11:43 GMT -8
Let's say wrestling is a real sport like MMA... Arquette winning the WCW title would be stupid. There's no way a weedy actor could be at that level. But Arquette as he is now is plausible. He was an actor who has now trained, he's started at the bottom on Indy mudshows and exhibits actual skills and toughness. He's a Rocky Balboa underdog. Even WCW never treated Arquette as a true wrestler or his title win as anything other fluke. Honestly I don't even remember how he won the title. I disagree that he is plausible. That's like saying CM Punk is plausible in MMA. |
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Post by Jay Cal on Jan 9, 2019 8:30:34 GMT -8
I could be wrong. I doubt that a single fan in attendance paid to see Jocephus vs. Arquette. But, TMZ didn't talk about Aldis vs. Storm. They didn't bring up Willie Mack vs. Matt Cross. You need eyeballs to be successful. The more people who are tuning into what the NWA is doing, the better. How many NWA fans did they capture from TMZ, probably zero. But how many more people are now aware they exist... Got to get your name out there. In the right places. If the TMZ piece didn't net any new fans, then what difference does it make. There are a ton of people who know the NFL exists, but they don't watch football. I don't watch Basketball but I know about the NBA. Now I have no idea what TNT normally run, but good word of mouth in wrestling circles will beat TMZ any day of the week. Isn't it the job of the promotion to cast the widest net possible? Isn't the idea to get the name out there? To get people talking about the brand? The Arquette Story is mostly a positive one. It was free advertising. Repetition. |
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Post by dkm on Jan 9, 2019 9:10:32 GMT -8
If it is effective.
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Post by JADEN on Jan 9, 2019 10:21:57 GMT -8
One of the best known moments in Tennesse Wrestling history is Lawler piledriving Andy Kaufman, an actor turned wrestler. No angle could have been hotter and it received alot of media including the famous Letterman Show incident. Hell, Lawler is probably still making money from that angle. Looking back from a historic perspective, it was good for business and good for wrestling. True, many pure wrestling fans may be turned off by "gimmicks" of the sort but i doubt many would deprive themselves of an otherwise enjoyable evening of wrestling by not buying a ticket and you can draw in and create new fans who are attracted by the novelty by putting on a solid and entertaining show to showcase to potential new fans. As a fan who buys tickets and has no business dealings behind the scenes, i can say having Arquette on the show added to the already entertaining show and did nothing to deminish judging by the live crowd reaction. If you think what Kaufman did & what Arquette is doing is the same thing then I call into question your basic understanding of wrestling.. Andy never tied to portray him self as a serious wrestler.. He was not having competitive matches with Lawler.. He was aside piece to a bigger narrative.. How can you take a 40+ year old actor with no athletic or combat sports back ground seriously?.. Let us look at it in a different light.. Can you take him & put him in an MMA fight in his own weight division against even a lower level UFC Fighter with 6 months training & take him seriously.. This is not Jason David Frank (The Green Power Ranger) who has an athletic & martial arts background & has fought in MMA.. This is Dewey from Scream.. I would have no issue with him being a manager.. I always thought Dustin Diamond (Screech from Saved by the Bell) could have been a big money manager & maybe David can be also.. Also if he really wanted to be a wrestler why start now?.. I may be wrong but it comes across to me as he has nothing else on his late & he craves the attention it brings him.. Finally my issue with what Fred said has little or nothing to do with Arquette.. It was his justification that is a company does something that is good for it's individual bottom line even if it hurts the business as a whole then it is Justified.. That argument just single handedly justifies the fact that Denis Coraluzzo fucked over buildings & charities that any one running in my area is still paying the consequences for to this day because it was good for his short term bottom line, If justifies Gino More & Joe Panzerino putting on shit shows with untrained talent & ticket sellers permanently skewing the perception of what independent wrestling is to thousands of fans who had to sit though those abortion of shows damaging my area for multiple generations.. It justifies pieces of shit like Doc Diamond fucking over the boys & doing many other unscrupulous activities just to put a dollar in his pocket.. The needs of many should outweigh the needs of an individual promotion.. If it hurts the industry as a whole then no it is not a good thing & should not be justified.. |
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Post by oldschoolcorino on Jan 9, 2019 11:30:16 GMT -8
One of the best known moments in Tennesse Wrestling history is Lawler piledriving Andy Kaufman, an actor turned wrestler. No angle could have been hotter and it received alot of media including the famous Letterman Show incident. Hell, Lawler is probably still making money from that angle. Looking back from a historic perspective, it was good for business and good for wrestling. True, many pure wrestling fans may be turned off by "gimmicks" of the sort but i doubt many would deprive themselves of an otherwise enjoyable evening of wrestling by not buying a ticket and you can draw in and create new fans who are attracted by the novelty by putting on a solid and entertaining show to showcase to potential new fans. As a fan who buys tickets and has no business dealings behind the scenes, i can say having Arquette on the show added to the already entertaining show and did nothing to deminish judging by the live crowd reaction. If you think what Kaufman did & what Arquette is doing is the same thing then I call into question your basic understanding of wrestling.. Andy never tied to portray him self as a serious wrestler.. He was not having competitive matches with Lawler.. He was aside piece to a bigger narrative.. How can you take a 40+ year old actor with no athletic or combat sports back ground seriously?.. Let us look at it in a different light.. Can you take him & put him in an MMA fight in his own weight division against even a lower level UFC Fighter with 6 months training & take him seriously.. This is not Jason David Frank (The Green Power Ranger) who has an athletic & martial arts background & has fought in MMA.. This is Dewey from Scream.. I would have no issue with him being a manager.. I always thought Dustin Diamond (Screech from Saved by the Bell) could have been a big money manager & maybe David can be also.. Also if he really wanted to be a wrestler why start now?.. I may be wrong but it comes across to me as he has nothing else on his late & he craves the attention it brings him.. Finally my issue with what Fred said has little or nothing to do with Arquette.. It was his justification that is a company does something that is good for it's individual bottom line even if it hurts the business as a whole then it is Justified.. That argument just single handedly justifies the fact that Denis Coraluzzo fucked over buildings & charities that any one running in my area is still paying the consequences for to this day because it was good for his short term bottom line, If justifies Gino More & Joe Panzerino putting on shit shows with untrained talent & ticket sellers permanently skewing the perception of what independent wrestling is to thousands of fans who had to sit though those abortion of shows damaging my area for multiple generations.. It justifies pieces of shit like Doc Diamond fucking over the boys & doing many other unscrupulous activities just to put a dollar in his pocket.. The needs of many should outweigh the needs of an individual promotion.. If it hurts the industry as a whole then no it is not a good thing & should not be justified.. im not saying it is the same, just saying that an "actor" with little to no wrestling experience can still be entertaining and excite a crowd. As for my basic understanding of wrestling it only applies from ticket buying fans standpoint. Experienced or not, Arquette got one of the biggest pops of the evening and the crowd was very entertained and that is why fans buy tickets, to be entertained. |
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Post by oldschoolcorino on Jan 9, 2019 15:43:35 GMT -8
The best thing about the discussion is its completely subjective so there is no wrong opinion. All for the sake of argument to keep the friendly forum talking.
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legacy
Veteran
The difference between a moment in time and a LEGACY is sometimes only 3 seconds. 1....2.....3!!!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by legacy on Jan 10, 2019 1:47:02 GMT -8
Is Arquette wrestling on the indie scene in the US any different then say Chris Jericho wrestling in New Japan? I mean sure Jericho is a trained accomplished wrestler, but they are coming to see WWE Jericho.More over if we are really going to make such a huge deal about someone with celebrity status wrestling matches, Nick Aldis was the TNA World Heavyweight Champion under the name Brutus Magnus. Are you going to sit there and tell me their aren't some people still to this day who come to watch him wrestle solely from his days in TNA.I have no problem with David Arquette wanting to wrestle, I have no problem with anyone booking him, and I have no problem with anyone paying to see it. I have seen people pay tons of money to watch Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior. Neither of them can preform more than 6 moves and their matches are as terrible as anything Arquette can do.
I guess to call Arquette a Pro Wrestler would be insulting to guys who have trained and worked their whole life to get where they are and call themselves that, and I am sure that David knows this is more a publicity stunt than anything but if he wants to go out and wrestle, and he doesn't injure anyone or himself doing it, who am I to tell him not to.
My grandfather used to tell other wrestlers that "you know you have the crowds attention when with a wave of your arm or a gesture to the audience draws a reaction, good or bad." I believe that still applies today and if it is creating a reaction then if nothing else, there is some form of enjoyment in those reactions. Arquette can't wrestle but he has the crowd.
That's all I will say about this 😁
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Post by MKCS on Jan 13, 2019 18:37:39 GMT -8
I like Arquette as a film actor and from when I've heard him on Howard Stern's radio show he seems like a good dude who is pretty funny and chill. I also think he has a place in wrestling but should moreso be in those silly cartoony federations that have guys running around in slow motion or rocking one another to sleep. Arquette shouldn't be working in the National Wrestling Alliance.
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legacy
Veteran
The difference between a moment in time and a LEGACY is sometimes only 3 seconds. 1....2.....3!!!!!!
Posts: 176
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Post by legacy on Jan 13, 2019 22:25:17 GMT -8
I like Arquette as a film actor and from when I've heard him on Howard Stern's radio show he seems like a good dude who is pretty funny and chill. I also think he has a place in wrestling but should moreso be in those silly cartoony federations that have guys running around in slow motion or rocking one another to sleep. Arquette shouldn't be working in the National Wrestling Alliance.m Didn't the NWA just have James Ellsworth wrestle Nick Aldis for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship? Talk about cartoon characters. |
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Post by spacemountain on Jan 14, 2019 5:36:00 GMT -8
But Aldis went over Ellsworth clean and the champion finished strong. This wasn't like Flair bumping for the referee where the champion looked weak to get cheap heat
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Post by fairfax on Jan 14, 2019 23:33:22 GMT -8
I personally LOVED the film "Ready to Rumble". The thing people tend to forget is that the movie was being written and filmed and all that jazz WHILE WCW was on top. Had it come out in '98 I think it would have done much better. It's totally STUPID of course... But stupid like Anchorman or Step Brothers. Yes it paints wrestling fans as complete idiots BUT have you guys ever noticed SOME of the people that go to wrestling shows? Sure there are casual fans and families enjoying a night out with the kids....plenty of kids BUT I've seen a much greater majority of hillbillies and likely inbred people and sooooo many people who believed EVERY thing they witnessed was 100% pure real athletic competition!!! At the heights of popularity you see more casual fans but the typical wrestling fan IS THE typical wrestling fan. Indy wrestling is WILDLY popular right now. Sure you can earn lucrative money in Japan and trough wrestlingtees.com or whatever but guys like Cody Rhodes and The Bucks and so on either left WWE or refuse to go there because there is great money to be made on the indies while you can maintain control of your schedule abd character etc.
And sure...David Arquette isn't the most polished "worker" BUT he is seriously improving. About 40 minutes outside of Columbus Ohio to the east is a small town called Lancaster. They have a fairly successful independent there known as the Premiere Wrestling Alliance. They have a few central Ohio regulars but in conjunction with the company they also run a school. Most of the roster is home grown talent that have graduated from their school. I'm not SUPER close with the owner as for 10 odd years I ran against him and hus former company....and I was a much younger man in those days with soooo much to learn and aside from running opposition I ran my MOUTH more than anything. However the owner and I shared a mentor in UBER-CARNIE the LATE GREAT and Fantastic Wild Bull Miller. My first job in the bizz was answering telephones as 1333 W. 5th ave. in downtown columbus ohio at the IWA School of Professional Wrestling. I hug around the school and with Bull from 14-19 when I started working opposition. Around the time I left the guy who now owns the PWA joined up. Anyhow....David Arquette was in Columbus for something NON WRESTLING related and made the 45 minute drive to the PWA school to work out and practice during the training sessions. He was gracious enough to film a segment for the PWA YouTube channel while there. But the point is that Arquette wasn't booked...he ACTUALLY WANTS to improve his game. The guy clearly has charisma and is very entertaining. I say good for him for sticking to it and wanting to erase the shitty rep he got while working for WCW. He's a FAN. Like ALL OF US ARE. Like 90% of guys that have been successful in the business. I think he was entertaining in WCW once he heeled on D.D.P. and did the SHUUUUUUUUUUT UUUUUUUP routine. But he's really working at getting better AND HE IS getting better! Idk if you guys have seen the IMPACT WRESTLING/Border City Wrestling ONE NIGHT ONLY taping they did where he worked a tag match with BCW regular R.j. City or not but it's a good match! I was shocked. I think what he did with Jocephus Brody was great! And I lime the idea of him running with Tim Storm.
If I could fantasy book the good old NWA for a moment I'd have Storm turn heel and become the "muscle" for little, skinny, whiny heels P.P.A. Pretty Peter Avalon and his buddy Hollywood's OWN (Sorry Joey Ryan) David Arquette!!! Or maybe have him pair up with Samuel Shaw since he's currently doing the "crazzzy" gimmick too and they can BOTH be crazy ... Maybe have Arquette do the old TNA/ABYSS/SteveRichards Dr Stevie angle where Arquette would be the equally insane psychiatrist for Shaw. The sky is the limit with Arquette because he's a guy that can ACTUALLY ACT!!!
Oh and for the guys arguing about him winning the WCW title or Hogan and friends being what killed WCW....Jamie Kellner who took over the Turner Networks is who canceled WCW programming and who IS THE ONE WHO SINGLE HANDEDLY KILLED WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING. Nobody else. And as bad as WCW was at the end....they were still getting ratings that are in the exact same neighborhood of WWE's current ratings. So while it had fallen considerably from the peek of the heights of the Monday Night Wars it was still drawing 2-3 million people each week. Had Kellner NOT canceled the TEEVEE, how is old Brucey???, Fuscient Media would have most likely gone through with the acquisition of the company and who knows.....it might still be on the air today.
I think you gotta give Arquette a fighting chance though and I think YOU HAVE to give him credit for vast improvement. And look how popular the whole Hangman Page vs/feud/murder/penispretender Magnum Joey Ryan thing was....and talk about unbelievable or downright stupid!!! Wrestling is on the verge of another upswing or boom period YET having to suspend disbelief doesn't change even during the lowest of periods.
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