|
Post by nwasmokymtn on Nov 24, 2016 17:02:04 GMT -8
But Tony, for your company if you were promoting could you potentially debut a local guy in your company who is muscled up and make money from something like him lifting 500 pounds? For me personally I would be interested in seeing if he could do it and would probably pay my ticket price (If it were reasonable) just to see if he could do it. Then, they'd get my money the next time around to see him wrestle his first match, would that not work for you or other local promoters? I'm genuinely curious. To me, if a local promotion was offering something like The Iron Sheik Persian Club challenge or the old Pepper Gomez challenges I'd be interested. It's different then the whole "Hey, lets put on a great match" and if you could offer things like that mixed in with good stories, characters that get me emotionally invested and genuinely interesting shows I'd be more willing to pay my money. I haven't attended an indy show in years. Why? I don't care if Wrestler A is going to have a great five star match with Wrestler B. If you hooked me with a great story line and the only way to find out what is going to happen next is to buy a ticket I'd be there monthly. I absolutely think that would work if it's presented right. I love that stuff. I don't get the opportunity to do a lot of things that I want to do because what we do is dictated by who is over at the top of the card. The promotion is more worked rated based now because Owens and Kincaid are on top and I've had to build a crew of guys that can match up with them. Most of a promotion's "style" is based who gets over on top.
|
|
|
Post by dkm on Dec 1, 2016 12:55:37 GMT -8
Was just listening to Al Snow doing a seminar and he told a story about how Tony Atlas debuted in a territory back in the day and Ole Anderson who was promoting introduced him with 4 weeks worth of hype. Week 1 saw Atlas come out and introduce himself shirtless to sell that he's got a great physique, week 2 he comes out and says that next week he's going to try and bench press 500 pounds and asks everyone to come out to the arena to support him while he attempts it. Week 3 rolls around and they put the weights by the door to sell that he's legitimately going to lift 500 pounds, the ring crew sell how much it weighs. Anyway, Atlas successfully lifts the weight, the crowd go wild, Atlas gets on the microphone and says "I'm having my first match next week, please come out and support me.". This allegedly sells out the entire building but Atlas kills himself when he has a 12 minute match with a much smaller man with Ole telling him that he should have beat the other dude in a much shorter time. Anyway, old school wrestling used to have a lot of this stuff. More simplistic angles, more realistic story lines and characters and it was also a time where a gimmick wrestler was actually a big deal. If you had a 600 pound obese wrestler debut back in the 80's he was considered a legitimate threat and could sell tickets from body slam contests, squash matches and six months later your top guy could barely pull out the win. These days a 600 pounder would be viewed on their work rate with most thinking they have no place in wrestling. I'm rambling but the NWA and it's territories obviously love old school wrestling. Can these older style angles and characters work today? Instead of aiming to compete with everyone else on work rate should these companies go in a completely different direction and simply debut a tough man who is going to try and win matches? I'd be interested in your views.
I think to a point, yes. Dan Severn would often work out with weights and bags in a sectioned off part of "arena" before the show and during intermission and would often walk from that area to the ring. Everyone in the building knew how the match was going to end but they were pumped up (no pun intended) to watch Severn in action by the time he made it to the ring.
The skill that is most lacking today in the promo. I remember when we did alliance guys/talk NWA how often we have on a wrestler who simple could not talk. One guy sucked until the very end and then cut a wrestling promo that made us go, where the hell was that guy for the past 30 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by fairfax on Dec 3, 2016 5:33:55 GMT -8
One thing I think more companies should do that's pretty old school is shorter/squash matches. An average wwe fan might watch Smokey or SAW if they flipped past it but I'm not sure they'd watch a 15-20 minute match between 2 guys they don't know. Hell the WWE rarely has a match go 15-20 mins outside of Mania main events. I was with a promoter I worked for maybe 15 years ago and we were chatting while he edited tape and he mentioned something that has stuck with me ever since, watch 2 minutes of WWE and from the first shot count as high as you can until the angle changes. He said you'll rarely get past 5 and hardly ever past 7. He was right. The WWE creates its fast paced TV by changing camera angles EVERY 3-5 seconds ALWAYS. They stole it from MTV. Indys need to lift it from WWE. They also need squash or underneath guys so that you can have shorter matches. I dont think an indy TV match should average more than 5 minutes. Big time main events maybe 10.
Another thing I remember from the good old days and 6:05 was the Weaver Lock! It c was really just a sleeper hold that The Dream "learned" from Johnny? Weaver. Now I remember the angle but I didnt know who Weaver was. Too often I see Greg Valentine or Tommy "Somebody say Fire it up!" Rich booked and its obvious neither man has any business in a ring. And sad but true MOST of todays fans don't truly know those names. But Tommy Wildfire Rich baby can still equal money for a promoter. Maybe I'm smokey and I bring Rich in for 1 date. Seminars/Autos/photo ops damn near pay his fee. He may even pop a ticket or 3, 4! Early on in the day maybe film a sit down with him or interview-not a shoot- and then film the seminar and how Wildfire works with Toby Farley and sees quite a bit of himself in Farley. Maybe early on in the live event you present him with a lifetime achievement award and Vince Brent interupts the "old man" cause nobody cares about him anymore. Maybe Tommy says his rasslin days are behind him but a wild eyed southern boy aint one to back down from a fight! Well a swift breeze could bust old Wildfire open and sure enough Brent lays one in on Wildfire and once more he dons the crimson mask until Farley makes the save! And then in a backstage segment its announced Wildfire vs Vince Brent next week! Tommys music hits and he steps through the curtain and BLINDSIDED once again. But wait....Heres Toby and, and, and he's taking Richs place! with Rich in the corner.
1 night with Wildfire translates to a months worth of angle with an aging star who's still over but didnt truly bump once! I believe thats an old school way to get miles out of old timers.
|
|
|
Post by MKCS on Dec 3, 2016 18:11:56 GMT -8
Fairfax, something I see a lot of from the monthly TV shows is you'll have a very small and skinny guy probably weighing no more than 60 kilograms (130 pounds) with not an ounce of muscle but he'll be going up against a heavyweight and he'll have a back and forth match for 8-10 minutes with the heavyweight and sometimes even the heavyweight will have to cheat to beat him.
These are guys who should be squashed in 2-3 minutes. Sure, the crowd are into them and they can do some cool moves but if a heavyweight competitor is struggling to beat this 130 pound guy it makes him look horrible. This is why a lot of indy wrestlers aren't taken seriously.
I like the Tommy Rich idea, would prefer a tag match though.
|
|
|
Post by Jay Cal on Dec 5, 2016 10:47:46 GMT -8
Fairfax, something I see a lot of from the monthly TV shows is you'll have a very small and skinny guy probably weighing no more than 60 kilograms (130 pounds) with not an ounce of muscle but he'll be going up against a heavyweight and he'll have a back and forth match for 8-10 minutes with the heavyweight and sometimes even the heavyweight will have to cheat to beat him. These are guys who should be squashed in 2-3 minutes. Sure, the crowd are into them and they can do some cool moves but if a heavyweight competitor is struggling to beat this 130 pound guy it makes him look horrible. This is why a lot of indy wrestlers aren't taken seriously. I like the Tommy Rich idea, would prefer a tag match though. Yeah tag match... only to have Tommy Turn heel... oh wait... I'm getting ahead of myself.
|
|
|
Post by josephd32 on Dec 5, 2016 22:02:22 GMT -8
Fairfax, something I see a lot of from the monthly TV shows is you'll have a very small and skinny guy probably weighing no more than 60 kilograms (130 pounds) with not an ounce of muscle but he'll be going up against a heavyweight and he'll have a back and forth match for 8-10 minutes with the heavyweight and sometimes even the heavyweight will have to cheat to beat him. These are guys who should be squashed in 2-3 minutes. I can't find a lot of 130 guys to book. 180 pounds maybe. Also, your idea is great until you're in an area where most guys are sub-200 pounds or barely above 200, and none of them will accept bookings anymore because they don't want to spend 2-3 hours driving to the venue to only work 2-3 minutes when they can take a closer booking and work 20.
|
|
|
Post by animus on Jan 9, 2017 12:49:05 GMT -8
I'm more familiar with WWF booking in the 80's, but I remember Hulk Hogan always in squash matches and then cuts a promo on his championship match opponent IE Macho Man, Piper, Yoko Zuno. There'd be a few month buildup before Hogan would ever face those aforementioned opponents. Could that style of booking work in today's NWA world?
|
|
|
Post by stanleyhetz on May 4, 2021 16:56:46 GMT -8
Was just listening to Al Snow doing a seminar and he told a story about how Tony Atlas debuted in a territory back in the day and Ole Anderson who was promoting introduced him with 4 weeks worth of hype. Week 1 saw Atlas come out and introduce himself shirtless to sell that he's got a great physique, week 2 he comes out and says that next week he's going to try and bench press 500 pounds and asks everyone to come out to the arena to support him while he attempts it. Week 3 rolls around and they put the weights by the door to sell that he's legitimately going to lift 500 pounds, the ring crew sell how much it weighs. Anyway, Atlas successfully lifts the weight, the crowd go wild, Atlas gets on the microphone and says "I'm having my first match next week, please come out and support me.". This allegedly sells out the entire building but Atlas kills himself when he has a 12 minute match with a much smaller man with Ole telling him that he should have beat the other dude in a much shorter time. Anyway, old school wrestling used to have a lot of this stuff. More simplistic angles, more realistic story lines and characters and it was also a time where a gimmick wrestler was actually a big deal. If you had a 600 pound obese wrestler debut back in the 80's he was considered a legitimate threat and could sell tickets from body slam contests, squash matches and six months later your top guy could barely pull out the win. These days a 600 pounder would be viewed on their work rate with most thinking they have no place in wrestling. I'm rambling but the NWA and it's territories obviously love old school wrestling. Can these older style angles and characters work today? Instead of aiming to compete with everyone else on work rate should these companies go in a completely different direction and simply debut a tough man who is going to try and win matches? I'd be interested in your views. The old school style seems to be doing okay these days.
|
|
|
Post by The Laughing Man on May 23, 2021 15:31:14 GMT -8
I remember they did something similar with Dino Bravo years ago, but I think he was already being showed regularly. Curt Hennig was a prime example of building up a debut. They did such an excellent job of that.
I know these are WWF focused but they are 2 that come to mind
|
|
|
Post by painunbound on Aug 11, 2021 7:25:05 GMT -8
Most definitely I see the audience now as so easily led they will follow anything. The majority of the wrestling audience was brought up on Attitude Era WWE. When you look at AEW that's the obvious comparison only the jokes don't make any sense and the execution of the wrestling is fairly lacking. It's been so long without old school booking that the fans would eat it up and ask for more. The biggest issue with now vs then is they don't understand how to make a moment land. The spacing between things happening is more important than the things themselves. They just want to fill everything up that the audience can't process what they're looking at. I think MLW is doing that. It's been a long build to get Hammerstone to the world title. The problem they face is losing so much talent. NWA can do this but they don't have a name as big as Aldis to tease. You give them a hook and then you can build the story for the next arc or two underneath the hyped match/angle. Promos every week, tease matches, intentional dqs, fuck finishes, heels heeling, it can all work.
|
|
|
Post by The Laughing Man on Aug 13, 2021 10:21:26 GMT -8
Most definitely I see the audience now as so easily led they will follow anything. The majority of the wrestling audience was brought up on Attitude Era WWE. When you look at AEW that's the obvious comparison only the jokes don't make any sense and the execution of the wrestling is fairly lacking. It's been so long without old school booking that the fans would eat it up and ask for more. The biggest issue with now vs then is they don't understand how to make a moment land. The spacing between things happening is more important than the things themselves. They just want to fill everything up that the audience can't process what they're looking at. I think MLW is doing that. It's been a long build to get Hammerstone to the world title. The problem they face is losing so much talent. NWA can do this but they don't have a name as big as Aldis to tease. You give them a hook and then you can build the story for the next arc or two underneath the hyped match/angle. Promos every week, tease matches, intentional dqs, fuck finishes, heels heeling, it can all work. Yes, MLW has been doing a great job building up their roster and long term plans. I really wish AEW would have allowed MJF to continue working with them because he was great on there. The Hart Dynasty is another example of a great team on MLW. The major negative has been groups like that just losing prime members and then they have to focus on another group.
|
|