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Post by MKCS on Apr 3, 2016 20:36:50 GMT -8
Was thinking about the Parade Of Champions event earlier and got thinking about this. What are the actual benefits of booking a BOD Champion even if the champion is local?
I put myself in a promoters shoes and I'm hiring this guy but the match outcome is decided by the alliance and usually it's not going to result in my guy coming out on top. Great example is Dane/Haas, Haas holds two belts in Texas and is IHWE's top guy but Jax Dane who is not a regular for NWA IHWE comes in and beats Haas clean in the middle with a spear.
At the same event the IHWE Tag Team Champions lost to the World Tag Champions and other guys who I can only assume were locals also lost to the World Champions. In my mind this basically says "Hey, my guys aren't world calibre athletes" and whilst most are not you definitely don't want your audience to know that.
It's not like these guys are draws so what is the benefit in bringing a guy in? So my guy can wrestle a World Champion who can't draw for twenty minutes and lose? No thanks, it'd probably be more beneficial to bring in a guy who would put my guy over and maybe sell me a few tickets.
So, I'm not just talking about Parade Of Champions, what is the benefit for say NWA-NRW in Colorado or NWA-AAW in Australia to book the BOD Champions?
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Post by tonybrooklyn on Apr 3, 2016 22:48:18 GMT -8
I see three scenarios where there is "benefit".
1. If the champion is a draw who will put butts in seats.
2. If you're guy is going to win the title.
3. If you are a really good booker who can build a program where a challenger emerges from you roster....and your fans believe he has a real chance to win. Therefore, I guess it doesn't matter who the visiting champion is.
On a side note, just think of the benefit you get when a goof in a clown suit shows up to accompany the champion(s).
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Post by dkm on Apr 4, 2016 20:48:43 GMT -8
There are members who post here and some have answered this question in the past. If you really want an answer, message them.
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Post by MKCS on Apr 4, 2016 20:54:47 GMT -8
Why can't they just answer here? I'm not going to bother anyone by private messaging them unless I have to.
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Post by dkm on Apr 4, 2016 21:27:05 GMT -8
Why can't they just answer here? I'm not going to bother anyone by private messaging them unless I have to. The question has been answered before. I put myself in a promoters shoes and I'm hiring this guy but the match outcome is decided by the alliance and usually it's not going to result in my guy coming out on top. Great example is Dane/Haas, Haas holds two belts in Texas and is IHWE's top guy but Jax Dane who is not a regular for NWA IHWE comes in and beats Haas clean in the middle with a spear. Uh, the story line has been building since October 31 in two promotions (IWHE & Texoma). Haas pinned Dane at the last IHWE show, Dane cost Haas a chance at the North American title and later Haas and Dane went after his title defense in NWA Texoma. Dane was the face, Haas was the heel and the story was Haas is the only guy to pin Dane in the US in the last 3 years and he has done it twice., that Dane has never beat Haas so can Dane do it so the fans wanted to see Dane go over. really it was Wrestling 101.
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Post by josephd32 on Apr 4, 2016 21:49:14 GMT -8
Look at what Ric Flair did early on during his first few title runs.
If the man himself is not over in an area, put the title over.
Build the title up, make it seem like it's the greatest thing that has ever existed. Then, when it comes time to put the man over, all he needs to do is put the title over his shoulder. If the title is that big of a deal, the holder of the title must be a big deal as well.
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Post by josephd32 on Apr 4, 2016 21:52:35 GMT -8
I even mentioned in my latest write up for the upcoming World title match at CAC that those who threw the title down actually added to it's mystique, as they knew that the same act of defiance with almost any other title wouldn't have meant nearly as much.
Always look for the positive spin. And if you think you can be a successful promoter without putting shitloads of spin on almost everything you do, get the hell out of the business now.
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Post by NWA Fanatic on Apr 5, 2016 11:12:22 GMT -8
So surprised why someone still doesn't what the point is of booking a BOD champion. I mean if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, why be part of the NWA?
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Post by tonybrooklyn on Apr 5, 2016 12:29:43 GMT -8
So surprised why someone still doesn't what the point is of booking a BOD champion. I mean if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, why be part of the NWA? Based on my experience, some of the promoters at that time were driven by being "part of" the alliance. They were marks for the brand...who used it to get themselves over in their little worlds.
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Post by MKCS on Apr 5, 2016 13:41:17 GMT -8
So surprised why someone still doesn't what the point is of booking a BOD champion. I mean if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, why be part of the NWA? Think of it from a business perspective. For me, if I created an NWA territory I'd use the NWA name to simply be able to write on a training school press release that my company is affiliated with 30 promotions around the world and that they should train at my school because they can represent the NWA Polejump brand overseas. Plus some wrestlers (Such as Rob Conway) allegedly give discount to NWA promotions, allegedly in some parts of the United States the name is a draw and I'd like to think I'd work closely with the other NWA territory in town to bring international talent to Australia. I wouldn't book any of the World Champions currently except maybe Rob Conway and he's the tag champion so it wouldn't be for a title match. Not sure if I'd even advertise him as the current NWA World Tag Team Champion on the poster if I had Conway booked. I think "Former WWE superstar" means more than "Current NWA World Tag Team Champion" Only reason I'd book them is if they were already in the country like EPW did in 2008 or whatever it was when they had Karl Anderson who was tag champion at the time wrestle because he'd done the NWA Australia tour.
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Post by NWA Fanatic on Apr 5, 2016 19:36:52 GMT -8
So surprised why someone still doesn't what the point is of booking a BOD champion. I mean if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, why be part of the NWA? Think of it from a business perspective. For me, if I created an NWA territory I'd use the NWA name to simply be able to write on a training school press release that my company is affiliated with 30 promotions around the world and that they should train at my school because they can represent the NWA Polejump brand overseas. Plus some wrestlers (Such as Rob Conway) allegedly give discount to NWA promotions, allegedly in some parts of the United States the name is a draw and I'd like to think I'd work closely with the other NWA territory in town to bring international talent to Australia. I wouldn't book any of the World Champions currently except maybe Rob Conway and he's the tag champion so it wouldn't be for a title match. Not sure if I'd even advertise him as the current NWA World Tag Team Champion on the poster if I had Conway booked. I think "Former WWE superstar" means more than "Current NWA World Tag Team Champion" Only reason I'd book them is if they were already in the country like EPW did in 2008 or whatever it was when they had Karl Anderson who was tag champion at the time wrestle because he'd done the NWA Australia tour. Your post makes zero sense. Try to rethink what you wanted to say and try to put it to words.... Don't bother becoming part of the NWA if you're not going to book any of their champions!
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Post by MKCS on Apr 5, 2016 20:51:28 GMT -8
Think of it from a business perspective. For me, if I created an NWA territory I'd use the NWA name to simply be able to write on a training school press release that my company is affiliated with 30 promotions around the world and that they should train at my school because they can represent the NWA Polejump brand overseas. Plus some wrestlers (Such as Rob Conway) allegedly give discount to NWA promotions, allegedly in some parts of the United States the name is a draw and I'd like to think I'd work closely with the other NWA territory in town to bring international talent to Australia. I wouldn't book any of the World Champions currently except maybe Rob Conway and he's the tag champion so it wouldn't be for a title match. Not sure if I'd even advertise him as the current NWA World Tag Team Champion on the poster if I had Conway booked. I think "Former WWE superstar" means more than "Current NWA World Tag Team Champion" Only reason I'd book them is if they were already in the country like EPW did in 2008 or whatever it was when they had Karl Anderson who was tag champion at the time wrestle because he'd done the NWA Australia tour. Your post makes zero sense. Try to rethink what you wanted to say and try to put it to words.... Don't bother becoming part of the NWA if you're not going to book any of their champions! I'll dumb it down for you: Point 1: If I created an NWA territory and decided to open up a school along with the promotion a big selling point of training with my school and not a rival company is the fact that I'm affiliated with thirty promotions from around the world who could potentially book talent if they're good enough. NWA Australia's The Shark works the NWA territories in America so I assume I could get talent booked if they flew themselves over and we were affiliated with the NWA. Speaking of the other NWA promotion in Australia another benefit would be creating a working agreement with them and splitting the cost of international talent, sending talent over to them for shows, using their talent etc etc. Point 2: Some "name" talent that work closely with the NWA will discount their rate for anyone in the NWA with Rob Conway being a guy who is known to do this. I could save money by using a guy like Rob simply because I'm a member of the NWA and he offers that deal to promoters. Cheaper talent is definitely a benefit. Point 3: This was simply saying that no NWA BOD Champion right now is really worth bringing in apart from maybe Rob Conway and that even if you booked Rob Conway you'd promote him as "Former WWE Superstar" before promoting him as "NWA World Tag Team Champion" because the stuff he did 10 years ago is more relevant than what he's doing now. Also, I know the titles have no value in my market because a few years ago Australian wrestler TNT wrestled Adam Pearce for the NWA World Heavyweight Title and they did the same number they always did in that building so bringing the BOD Champions in would be pointless from a business standpoint Point 4: My point here is that I would potentially book a NWA BOD Champion simply to assist in building the brand but I'd only do it if the flight was taken care of. Paying 100 bucks or so for a Steve Anthony World Junior Title match is okay but when it becomes a plane trip, a hotel and a match fee it becomes a lot less attractive. --- Simple and to the point. I also think in a Sydney Australia wrestling market if you consistently ran good shows and sold merchandise or used footage to show what the NWA actually meant to wrestling you'd be able to maybe build up the brand (No NWA promotion has ever been here) which would be worthwhile for me. But yeah, to dumb it down even more my point is pretty much the NWA offers a few positives but the belts don't offer a whole lot it seems. When the titles are held by a guy who can put butts in the seats they become a lot more desirable to have on an international show and probably a local one as well.
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Post by NWA Fanatic on Apr 6, 2016 6:28:11 GMT -8
Your post makes zero sense. Try to rethink what you wanted to say and try to put it to words.... Don't bother becoming part of the NWA if you're not going to book any of their champions! I'll dumb it down for you: Point 1: If I created an NWA territory and decided to open up a school along with the promotion a big selling point of training with my school and not a rival company is the fact that I'm affiliated with thirty promotions from around the world who could potentially book talent if they're good enough. NWA Australia's The Shark works the NWA territories in America so I assume I could get talent booked if they flew themselves over and we were affiliated with the NWA. Speaking of the other NWA promotion in Australia another benefit would be creating a working agreement with them and splitting the cost of international talent, sending talent over to them for shows, using their talent etc etc. Point 2: Some "name" talent that work closely with the NWA will discount their rate for anyone in the NWA with Rob Conway being a guy who is known to do this. I could save money by using a guy like Rob simply because I'm a member of the NWA and he offers that deal to promoters. Cheaper talent is definitely a benefit. Point 3: This was simply saying that no NWA BOD Champion right now is really worth bringing in apart from maybe Rob Conway and that even if you booked Rob Conway you'd promote him as "Former WWE Superstar" before promoting him as "NWA World Tag Team Champion" because the stuff he did 10 years ago is more relevant than what he's doing now. Also, I know the titles have no value in my market because a few years ago Australian wrestler TNT wrestled Adam Pearce for the NWA World Heavyweight Title and they did the same number they always did in that building so bringing the BOD Champions in would be pointless from a business standpoint Point 4: My point here is that I would potentially book a NWA BOD Champion simply to assist in building the brand but I'd only do it if the flight was taken care of. Paying 100 bucks or so for a Steve Anthony World Junior Title match is okay but when it becomes a plane trip, a hotel and a match fee it becomes a lot less attractive. --- Simple and to the point. I also think in a Sydney Australia wrestling market if you consistently ran good shows and sold merchandise or used footage to show what the NWA actually meant to wrestling you'd be able to maybe build up the brand (No NWA promotion has ever been here) which would be worthwhile for me. But yeah, to dumb it down even more my point is pretty much the NWA offers a few positives but the belts don't offer a whole lot it seems. When the titles are held by a guy who can put butts in the seats they become a lot more desirable to have on an international show and probably a local one as well. Again, if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, don't bother becoming a NWA affiliated brand! Plain and simple, build your own brand and talent. That's the easier way for most.
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Post by Jay Cal on Apr 6, 2016 7:11:44 GMT -8
I'll dumb it down for you: Point 1: If I created an NWA territory and decided to open up a school along with the promotion a big selling point of training with my school and not a rival company is the fact that I'm affiliated with thirty promotions from around the world who could potentially book talent if they're good enough. NWA Australia's The Shark works the NWA territories in America so I assume I could get talent booked if they flew themselves over and we were affiliated with the NWA. Speaking of the other NWA promotion in Australia another benefit would be creating a working agreement with them and splitting the cost of international talent, sending talent over to them for shows, using their talent etc etc. Point 2: Some "name" talent that work closely with the NWA will discount their rate for anyone in the NWA with Rob Conway being a guy who is known to do this. I could save money by using a guy like Rob simply because I'm a member of the NWA and he offers that deal to promoters. Cheaper talent is definitely a benefit. Point 3: This was simply saying that no NWA BOD Champion right now is really worth bringing in apart from maybe Rob Conway and that even if you booked Rob Conway you'd promote him as "Former WWE Superstar" before promoting him as "NWA World Tag Team Champion" because the stuff he did 10 years ago is more relevant than what he's doing now. Also, I know the titles have no value in my market because a few years ago Australian wrestler TNT wrestled Adam Pearce for the NWA World Heavyweight Title and they did the same number they always did in that building so bringing the BOD Champions in would be pointless from a business standpoint Point 4: My point here is that I would potentially book a NWA BOD Champion simply to assist in building the brand but I'd only do it if the flight was taken care of. Paying 100 bucks or so for a Steve Anthony World Junior Title match is okay but when it becomes a plane trip, a hotel and a match fee it becomes a lot less attractive. --- Simple and to the point. I also think in a Sydney Australia wrestling market if you consistently ran good shows and sold merchandise or used footage to show what the NWA actually meant to wrestling you'd be able to maybe build up the brand (No NWA promotion has ever been here) which would be worthwhile for me. But yeah, to dumb it down even more my point is pretty much the NWA offers a few positives but the belts don't offer a whole lot it seems. When the titles are held by a guy who can put butts in the seats they become a lot more desirable to have on an international show and probably a local one as well. Again, if you don't want to book a NWA BOD Champion, don't bother becoming a NWA affiliated brand! Plain and simple, build your own brand and talent. That's the easier way for most. I have always felt that as an member, affiliate, associate, and now a licensee you get out of the NWA what you put into it. Regardless of who any of the champions are, if booked the correct way, you can make them a draw. Remember there are no sure bets in wrestling. What works in Texas, may not translate in California, or Sydney, or Tokyo, or Mexico City. As a promoter, it is your job to know your audience. Just because one promotion wasn't able to capitalize on a BOD title, doesn't mean someone else can't. With your example of TNT. I know he's a bit of a mark for winning titles. But how well was the show promoted? What was the lead to bringing in Pearce? How did they set up the title match before hand? How did they make it a big deal? I often refer to the direction of Championship Wrestling from Hollywood as they built the entire foundation of the show from episode 1 to Adam Pearce vs. Colt Cabana. Now Colt Cabana was known from his time in ROH and PWG, but he'd been a part of many of David Marquez's television shows as well as live arena shows. But he was never treated as a top contender to Pearce. Immediately when you tuned into a CWFH show, they put over the prestige of the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship. And they showcase the World Champion. And they built up the would be challenger for that title on the very first episode... Cabana challenged Pearce post victory of Peter Avalon. And from then the story was built. If I'm a promoter in Sydney, I would talk about the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship at length. I would shoot promos with my top tier talent talking about the meaning of the title, the legacy of the title. (Not unlike what CWFH did priot to the split between TNA and the NWA.) Forgive me for not knowing all the local talent, but I think Cash Money Carlo Cannon is in from Melbourn along with Elliot Sexton. I think Hartley Jackson is in Sydney. And maybe even use Davis Storm from Perth. I would have a slow build. The NWA Australian director would be a gimmick but a straight lace, non character gimmick just to deliver NWA news and promos via YouTube and live shows. We would announce a Round Robin Tournament to crown a number one contender to the Legendary 10lbs of Gold, whomever the Champion is at the time of... The BIGGEST NWA Sydney show of the year. Each show would be leading up to this moment. With lets just say Elliot Sexton, because the dude has a great look, good promos, and a lot of ability is your guy. Each show we build up to his eventual match with Dane or whomever the World Champion is. We even have Dane film promos on YouTube talking about the Tournament and mention how he's scouting the talent. This all leads to a big show down. But not in a few weeks... its a slow burn. Dane's name or whomever the Champion is, has to be said. He has to have a presence without being present. Promos are the best way. Maybe even finding a way for Dane's matches to be shown at the live events... with Dane dedicating his victory to the tournament winners and what not. When you finally book Dane, he goes over... but not cleanly. There has to be the appearance that he is vulnerable, beatable, but strong. Of course the proper thing to do is have the Champion shake the challengers hand, only to have the challenger attack the champion. Pose with the belt. Be a real dick hole. The fans turn on Sexton. Not only have you created heat for the rematch, but you just established a top heel. So if you're still reading, good for you. Because I probably would have skipped through most of that. But ultimately, its up to you to establish the meaning of the brand and the importance of the NWA World Title. I know Tony Givens has said its been wonderful for business being a part of the NWA. He's in TN where the NWA is/was still a highly sought after commodity. Not sure if it would be that easy in Sydney, but to quote some silly movie about Baseball, "If you build it, they will come..." plus promote the ever loving shit out of it.
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Post by MKCS on Apr 6, 2016 13:37:33 GMT -8
With TNT the guy has pretty good reach. I don't really like him but he does have his fans and his promotion was at one point the top promotion in Sydney although recently he's scaled back a lot and become number 3 due to IWA Australia and PWA Sydney taking over.
How did he build it? He didn't really do a story line but there was a promo from Adam Pearce and TNT made one in response. If I remember correctly a number 1 contenders match may have also been won by him the show before the World Title match and they did try and make it a big deal because they ran the show at the Panthers club which is where all the companies do their bigger shows. They did about 150 fans which is what they usually average.
For me the World Heavyweight Champion has to be someone the people want to see and have a good story line backing it. If my local promoter booked Jax Dane I wouldn't travel 5 minutes down the road to see it. Not because Dane isn't good but simply because he doesn't interest me as a fan. Chance Prophet? I'd be there. Chase Owens? I'd be there. Rob Conway? I'd also be there for him.
I think it's a mix of having a champion people want to see and a great story line. That maximises revenue.
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