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Post by dkm on Jun 9, 2016 13:51:53 GMT -8
As for all the speculation, I know this much. If you are meeting with Triple H it's because Triple H wants to meet with you. And as pwinsider reported the meeting was to buy the houston library for the network. At least that was what sources said. I doubt there's anymore to it. Seriously the NWA has nothing to offer the WWE. If there were wrestlers who wrestle NWA shows there's nothing holding them back from being signed. No contracts means they can go anywhere they want. And before you say "Don't believe everything you read, there's much more to this story," then please share. Because I highly doubt you know more than the rest of the fine folks on this board. That's just my opinion.
I have no idea why they met. My guess is the Library as its the only thing I can think of the WWE would be truly interested in except for maybe the brand name. The point of that post was, however, the way some people were posting it was like Bruce just wanted to pitch the Library or whatever to Triple H as if he was the person that set this up.
If they met over the Library, or whatever, it is be Triple H is interested.
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Post by dkm on Jun 9, 2016 14:02:24 GMT -8
So what makes Smoky Mountain, in your opinion so good that no one else is "remotely close"?
Ok let me see, TV show and large house shows (500-2000) ticket sells just to name a few. I bet 90% of the others have an average 20-150 people show up to see some 5'4" 120lbs local heavyweight champ Texoma draws 250 to 500, Charlie Haas as their champion IHWE also draws 250 to 500 and Hass is their champion as well Pro Wrestling Texas is drawing 400+ and Moonshine Mantell is their champion. Mantell is around 220 and is also the Champion for UWN member Main Event Vendetta champion I believe is SoCal Crazy. Smaller guy who has held a many a title. They draw 500 plus Not sure how big Jeremy more in Mid-South is. Not sure what they draw on their weekly cards, but they have draw some good numbers on their bigger cards. One of the smallest champions in the NWA right is Jason Kincade who has been Smokey Mountain's top champion for over 4 1/2 years. That's just a start.
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Post by MKCS on Jun 9, 2016 15:01:16 GMT -8
Never trust DKM when it comes to numbers. DKM once said that the first Parade Of Champions sold 600-700 tickets and it was about 250-300. NWA Texoma crowds from the most recent video on YouTube (April 2016): www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXb1M8LGLYI'd say 150 at absolute maximum. This is their regular building as well. A video from DKM himself showing what IHWE gets, this was recent as well and set up Haas Vs Dane at the super show: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj_LY8qRjb4Again, about 150-200. Not a bad draw at all but definitely nowhere near the few hundred range. Pro Wrestling Texas is next with DKM claiming they draw 400+. This is probably the closest because it does look like 300-400 in there but it's not a lot more than that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTQAsxVWKE0NWA Vendetta? DKM claims 500+. This was their last event posted on YouTube and it's legitimately about 75 people at the start of the event and they finish with around 200-300. Looks like a sold show but their other event which they've put on themselves is still only around 200-300. www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0v4_PiyNC4--- So yeah, not putting these guys down because honestly it's really hard to pull 150-200 consistently in wrestling today (Look at TNA as a great example) but it's nowhere near what DKM is claiming. Very few indies are consistently drawing 500+ and if they do they're either a "name promotion" such as CHIKARA, CZW, PWG etc or they use tons of names like House Of Hardcore or Pro Wrestling Syndicate.
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Post by dkm on Jun 9, 2016 16:55:32 GMT -8
Hi Kettle, it's Pot.
OK, first on Parade of Champions, I said what I was told the building could hold 700-800. After the event I said the guy that put the chair said he put 500 out and most of them were full and that wrestlers and fans who were there said 400 - 475. But since it was one of Tony Brooklyn's events hopefully he can shed some light on it. Of course back then you said you wouldn't believe what he said.
Texoma, I've been there I've counted chairs and I've talked to people who go every month. 250 is average and big cards draw more. Von Erichs drew 550, Freebirds drew over 300.
IHWE, my video shows one side. You can't see how many are behind me or how many total rows to my right or even all the rows that are across from me.
Pro Wrestling Texas I got the number from the About Austin video.
Vendetta? I got the number from Jay (actually he gave me a bigger number) but I'm sure Joe can clear it up.
But hey, why take the word of people there when some guy can guess based on videos.
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Post by josephd32 on Jun 10, 2016 1:46:46 GMT -8
The Chowchilla Fair is a sold show. Yeah, very few people at the start because we're at a fair. People are at the various snack shacks, and other attractions. Probably did about 300 at the most that day, I'll agree with that. Chowchilla is also a very small fair. The Salinas Valley Fair in King City, also a sold show, has done as much as 2,500 (Fair organizer's numbers, not ours). This year we did about 1,700. Our shows in Santa Maria, usually at the Radisson, do about 300 which is a packed house as it's a smaller venue. Admittedly, we haven't ran at the Lakeview Jr. High School in Santa Maria for awhile as the Radisson is a considerably more cost-effective venue, but those shows do between 900-1200. The last two Vendettaversary events at the Elks Unocal Rodeo Arena in Santa Maria have done in excess of 1,000.
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Post by MKCS on Jun 10, 2016 3:31:27 GMT -8
Hi Kettle, it's Pot. OK, first on Parade of Champions, I said what I was told the building could hold 700-800. After the event I said the guy that put the chair said he put 500 out and most of them were full and that wrestlers and fans who were there said 400 - 475. But since it was one of Tony Brooklyn's events hopefully he can shed some light on it. Of course back then you said you wouldn't believe what he said. Texoma, I've been there I've counted chairs and I've talked to people who go every month. 250 is average and big cards draw more. Von Erichs drew 550, Freebirds drew over 300. IHWE, my video shows one side. You can't see how many are behind me or how many total rows to my right or even all the rows that are across from me. Pro Wrestling Texas I got the number from the About Austin video. Vendetta? I got the number from Jay (actually he gave me a bigger number) but I'm sure Joe can clear it up. But hey, why take the word of people there when some guy can guess based on videos. First of all I don't understand how it's the pot calling the kettle black. When have I ever pumped numbers up to try and make the NWA promotions look good? If anything I've always been on the other side and calling BS on people such as yourself who claim astronomical numbers. Second, I'd believe that The Von Erichs draw 500 in Texas but we're not talking biggest crowd ever we're talking average attendance. Texoma when we look at that video is about 100-150 people (Probably closer to 100), IHWE is a fair point so lets use this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWMCOeGdJZ0Entire crowd shown, we're still looking at about 150 maximum. As for the About Austin video I just checked it out, you know about journalism, you write for websites, you should know that video pieces like this are always going to make things seem bigger than what they actually are to sell a story. I remember in journalism classes being actively encouraged to fabricate stories and pump them up, it's journalism 101 and I've always hated that side of it. Third and finally, I'm not asking the people here to take my word for it. I posted the videos so they can come to their own conclusions. You do tend to pump the numbers up though so I don't want people reading your posts and assuming that NWA Texoma draw 500 on the regular when they draw 150.
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Post by Jay Cal on Jun 10, 2016 7:45:33 GMT -8
I have a few messages with a few in the know over the past few days...
From what I understand, the WWE invited Bruce. Specifically HHH and the WWE paid for his accommodations. Their conversation were more general, nothing specific. The assumption it was a feeling out process, conversations will continue but will mostly focus on the library.
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Post by dkm on Jun 10, 2016 8:19:57 GMT -8
Third and finally, I'm not asking the people here to take my word for it. I posted the videos so they can come to their own conclusions. You claimed my video showed maybe 150-200. Well here is the true breakdown. Each row has 20 chairs (minimum) All seats were sold. Across the ring there were 5 rows = 100 To the right 8 rows = 160 Bleachers by the door = 20 My section 3 rows = 60 Total = 340 As for Texoma I said between 250 to 500. And That's not "my number" That's a number I got from a regular attending fan. The only one that is my number is IWHE. When I've been to Texoma, the number I was given has held true.
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Post by dkm on Jun 10, 2016 8:20:45 GMT -8
I have a few messages with a few in the know over the past few days... From what I understand, the WWE invited Bruce. Specifically HHH and the WWE paid for his accommodations. Their conversation were more general, nothing specific. The assumption it was a feeling out process, conversations will continue but will mostly focus on the library.
Sounds reasonable
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Post by NWA Fanatic on Jun 10, 2016 12:02:02 GMT -8
I have a few messages with a few in the know over the past few days... From what I understand, the WWE invited Bruce. Specifically HHH and the WWE paid for his accommodations. Their conversation were more general, nothing specific. The assumption it was a feeling out process, conversations will continue but will mostly focus on the library. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the library as well as the NWA brand name itself. Also love how the bickering returns with Polejump. It's been quiet here but it doesn't need to be PJ trying to be correct on everything he posts on.
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Post by Fred Richards on Jun 11, 2016 8:09:57 GMT -8
Let me provide a morsel of relevant history.
A few decades ago, the then-WWWF reached out to former President Howard T. Brody and Vice President Dennis Coralluzo. Some of you might recall those gentlemen on WWWF television with the organization's championship belt in hand. This happened before the days of online gurus and associated, computer-driven madness.
Nonetheless, speculation (like Hulkamania) ran wild. Promotions rushed to join the organization and the entrance fee was raised; good old supply-and-demand economics. In fact, the membership rolls, albeit full, associate and affiliate, did swell.
It was a "love affair" that never led to marriage. Why is an internal matter I will not discuss here.
As you know, the organization also had a brief relationship with TNA. Via previous posts in this forum I detailed how we "fu***d it all up." Us - - not TNA.
Allow me to underscore a fact-of-life in this chaos some label "the business." Professional courtesies have always been extended to people in certain positions within this (or other) industries. To this day, I can get in backstage at WWE events (and have) at Madison Square Garden, The Meadowlands and elsewhere.
It is a common business practice by the WWE to eliminate their competition. This is the essence of the tidal wave Vince Jr. used when he swept up the television outlets os many organization-aligned promotions the day he decided to conquer the world. It proved successful.
The library-in-mention is, at best, a memory lane extravaganza. To "geezers" like me, it resurrects the "good old days" when grunt-and-groan was the meat and potatoes. To today's audience, it is BORING. Minimal high spots, no pyro, deafening sound, optical effects, etc. Sue, it might play well for a local fundraiser, but it ends there.
The issue that concerns me is the fair treatment of the Boesch Family. Valerie Boesch is a good woman whom I have met. And, yes, I have empirical knowledge of the agreement vis-a-vis the library.
For the sake of Mrs. Boesch, et al., I hope the library will be purchased for a fair price and she receives her money on a timely basis.
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Post by philvarlese on Jun 11, 2016 8:25:29 GMT -8
Can anyone elaborate on the condition of the films in this library? I've only seen a little of it, but the production was primitive at that time, and I'm not sure the integrity of the film has remained consistent over the years. There are some great matches, no doubt, but I have to wonder how much more would have to be invested by the WWE to make the library watchable.
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Post by philvarlese on Jun 11, 2016 8:29:31 GMT -8
A while back, WWE was "talking" with several promoters in my area, because they were interested in purchasing footage of WWE stars who worked their way up through the indy's, like Brodie Lee, Jon Moxley, and a few others. Their intent was to include some of that footage in their WWE DVDs about those guys from back in the day. Seems obvious that nothing really came from those discussions, and I hypothesize a few reasons: 1. Many promoters tend to overvalue their video footage 2. Many promoters figured that the WWE would pay dearly for their footage because.....well.......WWE
In both cases they were wrong. Hopefully for the Boesch estate Bruce gets a fair & just deal for them.
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Post by cwfhmarquez on Jun 12, 2016 20:34:35 GMT -8
The WWE doesn't need to ask to use anything "NWA", they have the rights to the brand...forever. When Howard was President, he signed an agreement with Linda McM. I've been waiting years for this to pop up, especially when we were in business with TNA. I'm sure someone over there simply forgot, but they do in fact have the right to the NWA name, logo and such.
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Post by Fred Richards on Jun 13, 2016 6:06:16 GMT -8
Just searched my archives. David Marquez is correct.
In a letter to Linda McMahon at the time Messers. Brody and Coralluzzo appeared on Fed television, Brody, duly authorized under the brand's bylaws, conveyed an everlasting right for Titan Sports and/or its assigns, successors, etc. to use the brand's name, marks, etc. at will.
On that date, Brody was the company's President. He also was a shareholder who sat on the Executive Board. The wisdom of any such decision aside, it survives - - no different from Zero One's everlasting rights.
There was no fee due from wither Titan or Zero One. The endowment(s) were made in the best interests of the brand and survive to this day. Occasionally, Zero One promotes a branded title match on its cards.
I also possess a copy of a letter from Linda McMahon to Mister Brody acknowledging the agreement. McMahon's letter was copied to others in the brand's hierarchy at the time.
FYI, the same right ws conveyed to TNA when the brand entered into a contractual agreement with that company. The critical difference being that when the relationship with TNA ended, a negotiated settlement was reached. Terms of that settlement included TNA surrendering its right vis-a-vis the brand and all that was/is attached to its identification other than the ongoing right to broadcast archival footage on an at-will basis without royalties having to be paid to the brand.
It is vital to remember that the Boesch library was the property of Paul and passed to his estate. If Mrs. Boesch has entered into an agreement allowing someone to use or liquidate it, that is her affair. I reprise my hope/expectation that she will be treated ethically and receive any proceeds that might be due her on a timely basis.
Thank you Dave for queuing my aging memory.
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